Dailysp was the best site ever to grace the internet. as far as i'm concerned, there was no better place to get live shows. Zwan or SP. the (expletive) Danish monkeys can (expletive) me. It's just wrong. I think Billy should involve himself in the matter. Even though I know that that is a futile and ridiculous idea. But still. What will we do?
From: st. cloud, MN, USA
Registered: Tue January 28 2003 Posts: 157
posted
really this is terrible. do make sure you look into the copyright laws. it seems ... wrong that live recordings and evenmoreso demos that were never released should have a copyright owned by anyone. if the pumpkins never made any $$ off a song in the first place, why should anyone make some off of you distributing it now??
do keep us updating on anything we can do. i would love to help in any way i can (tho i cant really offer any money, im somewhat poor )
From: Denmark
Registered: Wed January 29 2003 Posts: 23
posted
quote:Originally posted by gordanfreman: really this is terrible. do make sure you look into the copyright laws. it seems ... wrong that live recordings and evenmoreso demos that were never released should have a copyright owned by anyone. if the pumpkins never made any $$ off a song in the first place, why should anyone make some off of you distributing it now??
do keep us updating on anything we can do. i would love to help in any way i can (tho i cant really offer any money, im somewhat poor )
*tHe +LaZy+ cHiLd oF tHe zWaN*
I have a friend (who started this thread heh) who has a friend who knows something about the law. And he will take a look at the emails I've gotten. People are telling me not to give my name and address to the lawyer since he still only knows me as "plume". But I'm sure they can find me anyway if they really want to. But I'm still thinking about what to do. If there is anything to do at all.
KODA can go kiss our asses clean. Forget about sending them your personal info, Plume. Keep stalling for time. It's hard for them to find out about you through the Internet.
And in the meantime, I hope Billy finds out about this... and fast as well.
From: Denmark
Registered: Wed January 29 2003 Posts: 23
posted
quote:Originally posted by sunshineandtea: hey plume, so many really loved your site. how does it feel to be loved so?
-may the king of gloom be forever doomed-
It feels great that a lot of people have appreciated what I did. I'm touched by how many have offered their sympathy and help. I'm just worried what the price will be in the end of course. Oh and to keep this thread a little on-topic, Zwan got 4 out of possible 6 stars from Danish newspaper Ekstra Bladet yesterday. Much more than I expected.
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Fri January 24 2003 Posts: 4
posted
very sorry to hear about this plume.... yours was a great site
what a load of shit... what next; are they going to try and go after Jeroen for hosting the nspaa?
fight them (or at least make it very difficult); it's not like you ever hosted commercially released/available recordings
as far as they know, you could have been hosting recordings billy specifically requested be circulated (friends and enemies, machina II, etc.)
you should investigate the issue of your site being hosted in america - i really think where the site is hosted is significant (at least as far as KODA's jurisdiction goes). don't be bullied by some asshole who's acting like they're a collector for an insurance claim
[This message was edited by zalasta on Sat February 08 2003 at 04:42 AM.]
[This message was edited by zalasta on Sat February 08 2003 at 04:47 AM.]
It seems there are two separate threads on this, so I'll just copy-paste whatever I wrote in the other thread:
Ok, let me start off with saying that I'm a dane, so this concerns me quite a bit. Nevertheless, danish laws are pretty harsh. The danish company CODA are caretakers of whatever music is played, whether live or from record. They pay the artists in relation to how much their music is played. As a rule, every radio station/band/website in Denmark has to refer what they provide to CODA, otherwise you f*** up the system. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Had he chosen to contact the rightful owners of the music (eg. Corgan/Virgin/publishing company?) and confirmed this with CODA, these problems would've probably never arised. I know that these restrictions will seem pretty harsh to y'all, but that's the way it is, and the owner of the website knew that, as situations like his have been all over the media during the last couple of years. That's what it's like living in a country where the cheapest 25 cd-r spindle you'll find will cost you 18$. As a musician, I have to say that these laws actually enable many people to play music for a living. That wouldn't have been possible if everything was available for free. In general, it's a very good thing.
I'll have to stress that although plume had no commercial interests in this, it is impossible to live in Denmark and not know that this is illegal. However, CODA has dropped charges before after the sites they were after had been taken offline.
From: Denmark
Registered: Wed January 29 2003 Posts: 23
posted
quote:Originally posted by cdyrlund: danish laws are pretty harsh. The danish company CODA are caretakers of whatever music is played, whether live or from record. They pay the artists in relation to how much their music is played. As a rule, every radio station/band/website in Denmark has to refer what they provide to CODA, otherwise you f*** up the system. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Had he chosen to contact the rightful owners of the music (eg. Corgan/Virgin/publishing company?) and confirmed this with CODA, these problems would've probably never arised. I know that these restrictions will seem pretty harsh to y'all, but that's the way it is, and the owner of the website knew that, as situations like his have been all over the media during the last couple of years. That's what it's like living in a country where the cheapest 25 cd-r spindle you'll find will cost you 18$. As a musician, I have to say that these laws actually enable many people to play music for a living. That wouldn't have been possible if everything was available for free. In general, it's a very good thing.
I'll have to stress that although plume had no commercial interests in this, it is impossible to live in Denmark and not know that this is illegal. However, CODA has dropped charges before after the sites they were after had been taken offline.
Greetings, Christian Dyrlund Jacobsen
I have to disagree with you. It IS possible to live in Denmark and not know this. I never knew there was anything illegal about putting up live music for download. You can call me stupid and naive but I never for a second thought there could be anything wrong with it since it's not music that can be bought in any stores. So please don't say that I knew that, you don't know what I knew. I'm afraid of course that the lawyers will say the same. That I knew about it and therefore willfully broke the law. As far as I can tell my only hope is to claim the truth which is that I was unaware. There's a difference between "fortsæt og uagtsomhed". I was unaware. I fucking was. Why would I risk breaking the law for something that I got no personal gain from whatsoever? I'll probably end up paying for this anyhow but don't tell me that I knew. I haven't heard of any cases against people who had websites with live music. I remember the case were two young guys were convicted (and one of them killed himself) but that was a case about real musical piracy, actually ripping albums and singles and putting them online. That's wrong and I know that. I never knew that live music was covered by the same rules. It still doesn't make sense to me.
i really liked daily sp esp the mp3s you had of various artists (radiohead dizzy miss lizzy etc)....i love your site and the mp3s will be missed. I really hope things work out and you dont have to pay. you did nothing illegal, it's insane!!
From: Atlanta
Registered: Mon February 10 2003 Posts: 2
posted
Hey Plume, they're talking about you.....
KODA is evil. I am deeply saddened by these events. DailySP was the single best site on the net. Run by one of the internet's nicest people. Plume just tried to bring a little happiness to an uncaring world through the music of some of the greatest musicians ever. Then these a**hole recording punks try to sue him without so much as a warning that he was doing anything in violation of their crappy Danish laws. I hope they go to hell and choke on Satan's wang. The filthy phriking bstrds. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!
I now return to my quiet, uncaring attitude and daydreaming on my girlfriend.......
From: the big crab apple
Registered: Fri January 24 2003 Posts: 644
posted
this is so terrible. i think we could all scrounge up $50 (not sure how the money will translate) to donate. i really hope this turns out good for you. this is LIVE/UNRELEASED music, wtf. im fuckin pissed
billy or any other former members of sp probably can't do anything about it, it's in virgin's court, and they would probably go for making more money and looking jerks than making less money (staying rich) and being saviors
† † †
"fine, i'll let me have my way with myself" -me
what i think about people who fail to acknowledge the other members of zwan: without matt, dave, jimmy and paz, billy would be on the streets with a "feed the needy" cup and a rainbow shirt... just kidding billy... billy, put down the gun
From: Toronto
Registered: Wed February 05 2003 Posts: 7
posted
quote:Originally posted by hal0: stupid fuckin idiot record companys, they are going to piss everyone off to the point where there sales wont amount to anymore then a couple of thousand dollars a year.. pity them, they made sevral billion last year, even tho piracy on the internet was rapant...
this my friends is why some peopple have no problems pirating thousands of songs on the internet, downloading them where they can, letting their friends have ftp access to all their songs, and these people dont feel a bit of guilt, because they know the record companies are screwing everyone else over. and yes, in this case, they think that 2 wrongs do make a right.
YES! someone finally understands this whole situation! The record companies don't own us, WE OWN THEM. the only reason they make money is because of US. Why the hell are we letting them push us around?!? Why are we letting them take away our beloved Napsters and Kazaas! We should fight back!
We should NOT BUY ANY CDs! See how they like to be screwed! We should turn to pirating every song we hear until the music industry realizes that they are only in business because of US, the consumers! Ever hear of the customer is always right?!
We should show the music industry that we will not tolerate the crazy high prices of CDs and that WE ARE NOT CRIMINALS. We should not let them make us feel like criminals because they are the ones that are stealing from us, they are charging almost $30 for a CD here in Canada and usually these CDs have only 1 or 2 good songs (except the Zwan CD, of course )
We should fight back and totally screw them over like they have tried to screw us!
*Turns away feeling like some kind of revolutionary, lol*
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