From: Denmark
Registered: Wed January 29 2003 Posts: 25
posted
quote:Originally posted by TelegramSam: WTF do the Danish have to do with anything if the stuff is hosted on an American server?
Is that even legal? I'd be panhandling for LAWYER MONEY if I where him...
Well the thing is that I am Danish. I've wondered about it myself of course. The server is hosted on an American (or Canadian maybe) server. The files are hosted all over the world (but not in Denmark), 99,99% of the users of the site were not Danish. The band isn't Danish. I don't consider my site a Danish one at all. But I'm Danish and KODA handles the copyrights of the music in Denmark. So to them it makes sense I guess.
Ok, so maybe it's possible live in Denmark and not know. But you'll have to agree that this subject has in no way been made a taboo, and that it wouldn't have cost you anything to call the CODA office and make sure that you were in your right to do what you did. Anyways, I know you didn't intend to screw anybody...let's just hope it's another one of their scare campaigns. What I can't take is people bashing danish laws in general. Actually, Denmark of best countries in the world when it comes to consumer rights and interests, because we've never had policians that have been lobbyized by capitalist jerks (but you probably already know this, plume). In situations like these, there HAVE been warning signs, and the discussion about right or wrong being laid aside, I think whatever costs CODA are threatening with for you to pay are set so high, because their general policy is that with the massive amount of focus put on piracy and the distribution of music, you should've known or at least consulted them.
I duno somthing about this seems fishy. I mean you said they contacted you through e-mail, I would think that they would contact you via phone or somthing first. I would be weary of this, ask them to provide proof of who they are before you do anything else.
Also, i dont think it is possible for them to enforce there copyright laws on you. IF you are not in there country, then you are not subject to there laws, unless they extradite you or somthing, which would probly be to mutch of a hastle.
So yeah. 1st make sure they are from the government, then contact a lawyer, usualy they will give you a free consultation.
Edit: If wolfgang posted on the 25th, that he would see the band on the 26th, has there been any update?
From: Denmark
Registered: Wed January 29 2003 Posts: 25
posted
quote:Originally posted by cdyrlund: Ok, so maybe it's possible live in Denmark and not know. But you'll have to agree that this subject has in no way been made a taboo, and that it wouldn't have cost you anything to call the CODA office and make sure that you were in your right to do what you did.
I'm sure it hasn't been made a taboo but that doesn't mean everyone knows about it. Honestly I barely knew that there was a thing called KODA, I've never had any relations to them, I've never thought anything I did would be related to them in any way. Again you can call me ignorant or stupid but I just did not think making a website with live music from your favourite band was a problem. I know if I had charged money for it or put up officially released albums or something like that then it would have been wrong. But it never even entered in my mind that what I was doing could be wrong. Really, I thought it was more of a service to the band. I still think that's how it should be seen but I know now that it's not the case. On a side note, I more or less suffer from social phobia so it's not like it's an easy thing for me to pick up the phone and call to inquire about things. That doesn't excuse breaking the law of course. But again, I never thought that what I was doing was breaking the law.
quote: Anyways, I know you didn't intend to screw anybody...let's just hope it's another one of their scare campaigns.
I hope so. Maybe they'll just decide to drop it all. Yeah. Maybe they will. Well probably they won't. I doubt they'll have much sympathy with me or my intents. But if I'm lucky we can make an agreement so I can pay it off over time.
quote: What I can't take is people bashing danish laws in general. (...) I think whatever costs CODA are threatening with for you to pay are set so high, because their general policy is that with the massive amount of focus put on piracy and the distribution of music, you should've known or at least consulted them.
Greetings, Christian Dyrlund Jacobsen
Well I think you have to realize that almost everyone giving their opinion here don't really know or care about Danish law. Their reactions come from the fact that they're angry and frustrated on my behalf, I don't think it should be taken as a general criticism against Danish law. It's more like a group of friends sympathizing. I wish now that I had known live music was considered piracy too. That will never make sense to me really. I think it's unfair but if I had known it was infringing on copyrights I wouldn't have done it.
From: Denmark
Registered: Wed January 29 2003 Posts: 25
posted
quote:Originally posted by FadedInTheLightOfTheMoon: I duno somthing about this seems fishy. I mean you said they contacted you through e-mail, I would think that they would contact you via phone or somthing first. I would be weary of this, ask them to provide proof of who they are before you do anything else.
Also, i dont think it is possible for them to enforce there copyright laws on you. IF you are not in there country, then you are not subject to there laws, unless they extradite you or somthing, which would probly be to mutch of a hastle.
But I am in their country. I don't consider my site Danish, but I am Danish. That's why. And I'm 100% sure it's legit, and I'm starting to see that it's also the truth that I have broken copyright laws. Even though I didn't intend to. The reason they contacted me through email is that they don't actually know who I am yet. They only know me as "plume". I still have to give them my contact info yet.
quote: Edit: If wolfgang posted on the 25th, that he would see the band on the 26th, has there been any update?
As far as I can tell he posted on the 7th that he would see it tomorrow. That would be the 8th which is today. I hope he'll post when he gets back. Even if he didn't get to talk to them.
Ah sorry. i looked at his registration date as oposed to his posting date. wow that realy sucks. I would realy consider talking to a lawyer before giving them your contact info. And if that dosent work. FLEA THE COUNTRY jk. How mutch do they say you owe?
From: Denmark
Registered: Wed January 29 2003 Posts: 25
posted
quote:Originally posted by FadedInTheLightOfTheMoon: Ah sorry. i looked at his registration date as oposed to his posting date. wow that realy sucks. I would realy consider talking to a lawyer before giving them your contact info. And if that dosent work. FLEA THE COUNTRY jk. How mutch do they say you owe?
Well I'm looking at options for free legal help but I don't know how much chance there is anyway. I don't know the amount yet, I'm supposed to give them my contact info so they can get in touch with me to make the arrangements.
I honestly would not worry about it that mutch, in the end i think it would be up to the band, and even if they do winde up charging you, i dont htink the band would keep the money.
From: Denmark
Registered: Wed January 29 2003 Posts: 25
posted
quote:Originally posted by FadedInTheLightOfTheMoon: I honestly would not worry about it that mutch, in the end i think it would be up to the band, and even if they do winde up charging you, i dont htink the band would keep the money.
Nope. It's not up to the band. The band has passed the rights on to KODA. It's up to KODA. And the money wouldn't go to the band, they would go to KODA. I'm sure according to their agreement some money would be passed on to the band or the record company but it wouldn't be up to the band wether I have to pay or not. I'm reading the Danish copyright law right now and it's not looking that good.
From: Denmark
Registered: Wed January 29 2003 Posts: 25
posted
quote:Originally posted by FadedInTheLightOfTheMoon: How is the cost calculated? Based on the market value of the songs? Or is there an assumed value for each song, for each play?
I think it's calcuted by a certain amount per download per song. So a dollar for every time someone downloaded a song (that's just an example of course, I don't know the amount). And with a minimum cost per month. The thing is, I don't know how they can tell how many times the songs were downloaded. Since the files are spread over numerous servers and accounts on free hosts. They'd probably have to make a guess about it or something. Or maybe they'll just go with the minimum per month. Since the site was online almost 2 years it'll probably add up to a lot.
Ah. How distressing. Hopefuly the blessing of the band will make this all go away.
Edit: SP endorced Napster atleast 2 or 3 years ago, meaning that they basicly authorized anyone who wanted to, to share tehre files online. I think i read earlyer in this post, that you needed the permission of the artest before you let people download it. I think this consitutes there consent.
From: Nottingham, England, UK
Registered: Tue January 28 2003 Posts: 57
posted
this really fcuking sucks. They have no right to make him do anything...never mind paying for spreading music around the world!!! He was doing it for the good of the people, it`s not like you can get a kick out of hosting music, it`s for everyone elses` benefit!!! Stupid fcuking Capitalists try and make money out of anything and everything. Something really should be done about this. We should put their little Bourgeois asses` in their place!!! Alex
From: Ontario
Registered: Sat January 25 2003 Posts: 972
posted
I think some things about this case are unusual... like the fact that it was emailed to the guy and not the host/server... thats how it should work.
I think someone might be pulling his leg.
Any updates about what the band said? heh, maybe Billy will post here or as a billy post but in all seriousness, perhaps Zwan can't do anything so Wolfie decided not to post here because it might upset us. They just want to keep things organized.
I still think these mods are the best.
---------------- love, Sammi
"Never get angry at the stupid people Though I go crazy at the dullness of my life Sit and stare into a dusty window An empty face stares back at me and cries" Erasure - Piano Song
~*dreamchildofthezwan*~ The child of Zwilly, Zwaz, Zimmy, Zwatt and Zavid. "Won't somebody think of the children?!?!"
From: Denmark
Registered: Wed January 29 2003 Posts: 25
posted
quote:Originally posted by Lost Child: I think some things about this case are unusual... like the fact that it was emailed to the guy and not the host/server... thats how it should work.
I think someone might be pulling his leg.
Actually an email was sent to the person who runs diaryland which is the free service I used for the site. They asked him to reveal who was the owner of the domain dailysp.diaryland.com. I'm not sure if he did reveal that but they contacted me on the email address I had on the site. I'm quite sure no one is pulling my leg, unfortunately.
quote:
Any updates about what the band said? heh, maybe Billy will post here or as a billy post but in all seriousness, perhaps Zwan can't do anything so Wolfie decided not to post here because it might upset us. They just want to keep things organized.
I still think these mods are the best.
Well it's still early Saturday I guess, depending on where you are in the world. I do hope he'll post something here, even if it is negative. Better than going around and wondering. He's a great guy for wanting to try though, no doubt.
From: Ontario
Registered: Sat January 25 2003 Posts: 972
posted
How much do they want you to pay?
---------------- love, Sammi
"Never get angry at the stupid people Though I go crazy at the dullness of my life Sit and stare into a dusty window An empty face stares back at me and cries" Erasure - Piano Song
~*dreamchildofthezwan*~ The child of Zwilly, Zwaz, Zimmy, Zwatt and Zavid. "Won't somebody think of the children?!?!"
From: Denmark
Registered: Wed January 29 2003 Posts: 25
posted
quote:Originally posted by bodhisattva: not to be a dick, but i am going to move this thread into the non forum in a little while.
It's not zwan related? it was a website with zwan music too.. but you gotta do what you gotta do.
quote:Originally posted by Andrew connolly: I dunno if it will help or not.. but http://andrew.wox.org is set to run.. and if plume agrees we should be able to get it moving again in no time
Andrew I won't be putting the site up again. I don't think I should be doing anything like that at the moment.
quote:Originally postend by Lost Child: How much do they want you to pay?
I don't know yet. I still haven't given them my contact info.
From: Ontario
Registered: Sat January 25 2003 Posts: 972
posted
quote:Originally posted by bodhisattva: fine it can stay..
it is loosely related, as it did have zwan stuff on it at one time.
and zwan music is somewhat responsible for the situation your in.
Yay! your awesome
Loop: I think they would if they are for real... and then he would be in more trouble.
---------------- love, Sammi
"Never get angry at the stupid people Though I go crazy at the dullness of my life Sit and stare into a dusty window An empty face stares back at me and cries" Erasure - Piano Song
~*dreamchildofthezwan*~ The child of Zwilly, Zwaz, Zimmy, Zwatt and Zavid. "Won't somebody think of the children?!?!"
From: Denmark
Registered: Wed January 29 2003 Posts: 25
posted
An update on things. It's now clear to me that making the live music available is actually against the law. At least the Danish copyright law. And after getting some advice from someone who knows more about law than I do it seems that my best option is to co-operate with them and give them my contact info. And my only hope really is to try and make them see that I didn't know that what I was doing was against the law and that I didn't make any money or anything like that. I don't know how much hope there is of them understanding, but we'll see. Once again, I appreciate all the support. And I'll let you know what happens still.
This sucks terribly.. I hope everything turns right in the not so distant future..
If the costs will destroy his future! Maybe we can help all by sending the guy a dollar each.. dont know how many people are on the board but it maybe can be an option.
From: Ontario
Registered: Sat January 25 2003 Posts: 972
posted
I was about the suggest the same thing... I'd send you some Canadian dollars... tho i doubt that will help much
But just make a site about what happened to you, spread the link around... and people will send you money. It's been done before! People have made millions off off "I need a golden food dish for my cat. She deserves the best" O.o pretty freaky...
---------------- love, Sammi
"Never get angry at the stupid people Though I go crazy at the dullness of my life Sit and stare into a dusty window An empty face stares back at me and cries" Erasure - Piano Song
~*dreamchildofthezwan*~ The child of Zwilly, Zwaz, Zimmy, Zwatt and Zavid. "Won't somebody think of the children?!?!"
As far as being able to trace you, yes, they can. The computer(s) that you use to work on the site has its own unique identifier or IP number, which basically tells them the general area in which you live. A psychotic woman I had talked to over the internet for a couple months found out where I lived from my IP number. Things are easily traced, especially over the internet.
As bad as this sounds, I'm sure someone will step in. You should never be punished for ignorance.
From: Denmark
Registered: Wed January 29 2003 Posts: 25
posted
quote:Originally posted by TheEmptySea: Maybe Billy could help you pay for the fees?
I doubt that's realistic. And I'm not expecting anything like that. I think my best bet right now is to argue that I didn't know live music was a breach of the copyright law too. I didn't have any criminal intent. If they don't agree then I'll have to pay what they ask or take it to court I imagine.
Email this page to someone!
Next
jk. How mutch do they say you owe?
but in all seriousness, perhaps Zwan can't do anything so Wolfie decided not to post here because it might upset us. 
